Curse

art_ · Feb 22, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Angel

It was changed a bit back, though I don't think it was actually mentioned. It's functioned like that for quite a while, of course, but even so, it's a bit annoying that anet is sneaking in these subtle description changes to skills, Swirling Aura as well.

Yeah they are a bit to keen on these stealth changes/nerfs. They should really include everything they change in update notes.

Lord Iowerth · Feb 22, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Yeah, I thought I remembered it worded differently earlier, something along the lines of "can only be used once per mission" or something of that nature. Glad i'm not crazy o_O

And I do think there is a correlation between the amount of public outcry about something, and it's speed of being fixed (nerfed if you're a pessimist) and also being mentioned in the update notes.

Take the SoA axe if you want a recent example of this: quickly updated, highly controversial, and mentioned in the update notes.

Murder In China · Feb 22, 2006, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Anyone ever notice "For Great Justice!" has been nerfed? It has been toned down from 100% more adenaline, whenever you hit a target, to 50%.

seandom · Feb 22, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Bleh, I know it's no skill but... reset the Fame and Rank of all players

. That way you don't have to be rank 8++ to get into any kind of group in the Hero's Ascent. Just my $0.02

Mercury Angel · Feb 22, 2006, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

Anyone ever notice "For Great Justice!" has been nerfed? It has been toned down from 100% more adenaline, whenever you hit a target, to 50%.

Another pure description change, judging by;
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=49539

It's been 50% effect for a while, the description was just incorrect. Not sure when that specific description change occurred though.

Phoenix Ex · Feb 22, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

I think that its ridiculous to nerf IWAY...

1. One SS, Sympathetic Visage, and many other skills can easily counter SEVEN warriors. When it only takes one skill (and many choice to choose from) to completely destroy an entire team using IWAY, nerfing is just out of the question...

2. Nerfing order is just silly, ppl forgot that it takes life sacrifice AND a not so low energy cost, just for 5 seconds of effect that ONLY affects physical damage. If the range is any shorter than the necro can be picked off easily by one or two attacks and interrupted continuously thanks to the 2 sec cast time of order, rendering those skills useless.

People need to look at the big picture before just shouting NERF! NERF! Why is IWAY so popular? Because of the rank discrimination and the bad group forming system. If its easier to get in a group I am sure IWAY (a sub-par effective build, but quick to form) would quickly reduce in number.

Tomb long ago is the same as it is now, first it was air spike, then smite, then spirit. Imagine if IWAY is nerfed, so what? Everyone would jump ship to ranger spike, then after that is nerfed everyone jump to blood spike...the "one build flood pvp phenomenon will continue till a easier group forming system that is non rank biased is made.

The ideal solution is to just let it be till factions come out (hopefully with new group forming system), but if we NEED to get rid of IWAY right now, I would suggest having IWAY not affect pet BUT greatly increase the effect of the skill itself and remove the attack skill limit implemented before. Because a skill that relies on party member dying should give BIG bonus....

antialias02 · Feb 22, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

The funny thing about Res signet is that it actually DOESN'T appear on everybody's skillbars - especially not on Warriors in Random Arenas. At least, that's been my experience lately. Or, if it is, they seem to forget it's there.

(Kind of like how I forget to activate distortion sometimes. >.>)

reboot · Feb 22, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Gb2gwo

antialias02 · Feb 22, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Thanks for that enlightening addition to the conversation.

Murder In China · Feb 22, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01

^

Dzan · Feb 22, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

1. One SS, Sympathetic Visage, and many other skills can easily counter SEVEN warriors. When it only takes one skill (and many choice to choose from) to completely destroy an entire team using IWAY, nerfing is just out of the question...

When was the last time IWAY ran 7 warriors? November? October? If your balanced team thinks bringing one copy of SS and SV are going to let you roll IWAY you are sorrily mistaken.

Juicey Shake · Feb 22, 2006, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Fertile season/dust trap + ward against melee = gg iway.

all I want to see out of this update:
debuff @ orders
slight cooldown @ heal party

rebuff [slight] @ ether renewal

rebuff @ QZ [en cost, duration :\]

Thom · Feb 22, 2006, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Why nerf orders? Heals and energy management are far too easy when you are staying well out of the line of battle. The damage from orders is too easily multiplied by dual shot and attack speed buffs to be overlooked. If IWAY, some ranger spikes and iQ's tournement build all focus around the same skills, there is cause for concern. Orders is being "abused" at all levels of the game, which tells me that it is far too easy to use. Compare Order of Vampire to something like Energy Glyph or Punishing Shot, and I argue that you are in a whole different league. Sure Energy Glyph and Punishing Shot are widely used, but they are not as universal or clearly dominant as orders.

NightOwl · Feb 22, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Argh! C'mon Anet, I know you're reading these. Enough with the suspense, either put the changes in effect or at least announce what they will be. Please?

Phoenix Ex · Feb 23, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Why nerf orders? Heals and energy management are far too easy when you are staying well out of the line of battle. The damage from orders is too easily multiplied by dual shot and attack speed buffs to be overlooked. If IWAY, some ranger spikes and iQ's tournement build all focus around the same skills, there is cause for concern. Orders is being "abused" at all levels of the game, which tells me that it is far too easy to use. Compare Order of Vampire to something like Energy Glyph or Punishing Shot, and I argue that you are in a whole different league. Sure Energy Glyph and Punishing Shot are widely used, but they are not as universal or clearly dominant as orders.

Well...I agree order is too powerful when combined with many physical damage char, but someone need to suggest a good solution that doesn't involve wrecking another skill's usefulness. Remember, orders take 10 energy, 2 sec cast, and 17% life sac just for 5 sec of effect.

He's my suggestion, reduce range to like aegis, increase life sac, BUT increase the duration so it becomes a cast and forget it kind of enchantment. This way you can interrupt the order, and can kill the necro without sprinting across the map.

twicky_kid · Feb 23, 2006, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Ok there is alot of back and forth about orders so let me put it down on paper for you all.

Lets start with rangers spike. Usually 4 rangers, right? So you take dual orders +34 dmg (armor ignoring) for each arrow. Dual shot>punishing is the usual combo. That's 34x4x2=274 dmg just from orders on dual shot. Then 34x4=136 dmg just from orders on punishing. That's 410 dmg just from orders alone. Now add in bow dmg+rtw, punishing, and multiply by 4. Did I mention that's 204 health gain from order of the vamp. I can deal over 600 dmg and gain 204 life at the same time in 2 seconds while the orders spammer is in a far away safe place. Na, that's not overpowered at all.

Now lets take IWAY for example. Usually 6 wars, right? Under TF its 1 attack per second. 34x6=204 dmg just from orders. Na, 204 dmg (armor ignoring) per second doesn't seem too strong.

The only thing keeping IWAY alive is orders and EoE. Which btw needs a debuff IMO. Without those 2 skills IWAY would get about as much play as ignorance does.

I don't agree with a nerf to heal party. I agree that is very strong but if you take it down a few notches what is going to stop degen pressure builds? Heal party keeps them in check but can have lots of trouble against some degen builds. If heal party does get changed welcome to the new metagame.

Phoenix Ex · Feb 23, 2006, 06:28 AM // 06:28

To stop IWAY, just make it not applicable with pets. The thing with order is that it is only effective with mass physical damage character (when the energy and life sac is worth it). If someone can suggest a way to nerf that without making orders unusable in a normal team (where the most would probably be around 2 warrior and a ranger), that would be nice.

twicky_kid · Feb 23, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

To stop IWAY, just make it not applicable with pets. The thing with order is that it is only effective with mass physical damage character (when the energy and life sac is worth it). If someone can suggest a way to nerf that without making orders unusable in a normal team (where the most would probably be around 2 warrior and a ranger), that would be nice.

IWAY will be changed to not affect pets. The frog gave many hints to this on his last visit. IMO its not needed. IWAY doesn't kill you. Orders, spirits, eviscerate is what kills you. The warriors are just a medium to convey the dmg through. Since they have the highest armor and fastest attack speed they are the best profession for the job. On the down side warriors are the easiest to counter. Try running IWAY w/o orders and see how far you get. Then add orders and take out the spirits. In both those cases IWAY would not work because it needs them both. Take out IWAY and use orders and spirits. It would still work fine. IWAY is nothing but a flavor skill. Its a nice addition but isn't the true power.

tafy69 · Feb 23, 2006, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

IWAY will be changed to not affect pets. The frog gave many hints to this on his last visit. IMO its not needed. IWAY doesn't kill you. Orders, spirits, eviscerate is what kills you. The warriors are just a medium to convey the dmg through. Since they have the highest armor and fastest attack speed they are the best profession for the job. On the down side warriors are the easiest to counter. Try running IWAY w/o orders and see how far you get. Then add orders and take out the spirits. In both those cases IWAY would not work because it needs them both. Take out IWAY and use orders and spirits. It would still work fine. IWAY is nothing but a flavor skill. Its a nice addition but isn't the true power.

Isnt IWAY broken again allowing warriors to attack 150% faster than normal?

twicky_kid · Feb 23, 2006, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

Isnt IWAY broken again allowing warriors to attack 150% faster than normal?

No its not. IAS is still capped at 133%. You can use TF and IWAY together but it won't make a bit of difference.